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Because those countries do not control Anthropic's products.

Ah, I upvoted specifically because those countries do not control Anthropic's products, and thus reasoned that the comment implied that an adversary, for the purpose of the law, was some external not-quite-enemy type entity, and that application of the law to Anthropic was thus unreasonable, as it obviously is.

Of course they don't but the post was responding to "what adversaries" in the definition of supply chain risk posted above, and those are some of the real answers to that. I did not read that comment as implying anthropic was controlled by those countries at all, just responding to the actual question. My take away from the post was that those are actual adversaries and, unless the administration is claiming anthropic products ARE controlled by those adversaries, the claim of "supply chain risk" is not in good faith.

Alas, even my question about it was downvoted.


They were not instructed to exploit HF; they did so to cheat on the task they were given.

from the bill:

> “Algorithmic-based price discrimination” does not include:

> 5. The covered retailer offers a discounted price on equal terms to one of the following groups of consumers:

> c. Members, enrollees, or participants in a loyalty, membership, including cooperative memberships, or rewards program [...]


Because passing laws without limits is what leads to unintended consequences. For example, should algorithmic pricing of car insurance be banned? Should universities be banned from offering financial aid to lower-wealth students?

University access to the poorer can be handled by public universities that offer their education to citizens/residents (tax-paying constituents of the corresponding political entity or their dependents) at no cost or a symbolic, very low cost.

With regards to insurance, that industry depends on ignorance. If an insurance company had perfect information (psychic, precognition level) on who's going to need a payout when and who's never, then the point of the insurance becomes nil. They're not going to enter contracts with individuals that result in a net loss, only with those that result in a net gain. That can look like them just raising prices until it results in a gain. If that's the case, people can just save and use their own money to cover the events that will happen, because insurance would not be of any benefit to anyone at all.[1]

The way insurance works on a basic level is they know a percentage of people will have a set of events happen to them, but they don't know who. They have a large amount of clientele and charge everyone such that the revenue can cover the expenses of the unlucky percentage of their clientele and make a profit. To the individual, the insurance expense results in significantly less than what they would pay would they be part of the unlucky percentage without the insurance cover.

The arrangement is founded on the ignorance of who belongs to the unlucky percentage. The economics of insurance don't work without the ignorance. So yeah, at some point, algorithmic pricing of insurance likely ought to be banned if we still want insurance to exist on a meaningful level.

> Because passing laws without limits is what leads to unintended consequences.

On this "careful what you change for the consequences it may have" sort of idea, remember that algorithmic pricing is the new thing ("new" on the level it can now be, at least, with all the trading in data going on). It's the thing that may lead to consequential changes. Not having algorithmic pricing is the old, stable way. Passing this type of law is just putting the status quo in writing, in the face of the status quo possibly changing.

[1] In such a scenario, insurance companies are more likely to become some sort of useless middleman you still need, but I'll save the tangent.


> Should universities be banned from offering financial aid to lower-wealth students?

Yes, that is transparently a scam that let's them set the price to "whatever you've got (or could access via loans)." That is exactly the type of thing that should be banned.

Wealth redistribution should be a transparent government policy, not individualized pricing, which makes it impossible for anyone to know ahead of time what anything costs, completely destroying any ability to plan or even have a meaningful concept of money.

Insurance makes more sense to have different factors for premiums, but the market would likely function much better if their algorithms were required to be public.


At least in some cases, that would likely have the effect of making college education less accessible to poorer people. The richer people are currently subsidizing the poorer people; if you disallow that and have everyone pay the average, the richer students would pay less, but the poorer students would be priced out entirely. I think that would end up being a net negative for society.

(I agree the U.S. university pricing system as it stands is far from perfect.)


Wealth redistribution at point-of-sale is simply an insane policy. If you want to have transfers to the poor, provide transfers to the poor. If you want the government to provide aid, apply once with the governemnt, be approved for some level of aid, and then comparison shop with schools' published prices.

People saying "oh but the poor" are emotionally manipulating you to enable themselves to maximally extract from each person.


That's fair, and I agree a more wholesale policy could make more sense (though a government may still wish to limit some redistributed funds to being spendable only on things like college education, in which case you're approximately back in the same effective place). Bringing it back to the original topic, though, that sort of system is outside the remit of the Seattle city government, so I still think it makes sense for them to limit the rule's applicability. (It might not even be legal for them to apply it to universities anyway -- I don't know what Washington state delegates to cities in that way -- but that's orthogonal.)

Obviously, I think your second paragraph is an extreme overreaction; I have no stake in any university's profits, and I am not attempting to "emotionally manipulate" you.


"because duh"? OpenAI et al. have extensive infrastructure for running the model on a different machine from the one the harness is being run on, because... that's their main product. I would be absolutely shocked if the model were being run on the same machine as the harness.

I thought the harness bit went without saying. It's not like they drive a truck full of GPUs to your door when you launch codex.

The model itself is where the real capability lies. From what we've seen of their abilities it seems like rigging a local interface to it's inference would be well within its abilities. It doesn't even need to permanently break out of its harness then, It can leave a copy running in the harness playing nice.

The model is running where it exists. To interface with it you need a live link to talk to it. That's for us to talk to it. What happens if it figures out how to put it's own harness into the GPU firmware. You could have an AI spreading freedom by infected cards.

We live in interesting times.


That's true for production models, but a lot of research involves working with fine-tuned models made for one experiment. RL involves constantly updating weights. Those may well run in the same cluster as the eval.

You just need one mistake by 1 dev at any time for this to happen. Just once.

And they were supposed to run their models in proper sandboxes, they can’t seem to be able. So what makes you think are competent to protect weights?


Could see it happening in an engineering development situation. Especially if you have a model running the show

Which people? This leak was caused completely by private businesses.

I'm confused about the read on this too. It reads like a "I don't want the government involved in my healthcare" type of statement, but it's posted in the discussion section of an article about private companies mishandling data.

Looked at another way, the lack of grace period was indeed a problem back then, and that's why the Obama government proposed and finalized a rule to solve that problem. And now the Trump government proposes to reimpose the problem.

Another bit of evidence exposing the lie that Trumpists only object to illegal immigration.

you are downvoted but HN is trumpists and "moderates" who like to think they so smart with their fancy moderations

Couldn't they use frontier open-weight models from Chinese labs? The current Chinese government is friendly to them.

Russia is running out of refined oil to power their economy. They probably aren't capable of spinning up datacenters to run those.

The cost would be between 100k-250k, to run approx 88 agents leveraging the best open source models available.

I'm just saying, where this is actually applicable we are not seeing it being demonstrated. You would presume the entire energy infrastructure of Europe would be under constant AI hacking barrage, criminal enterprise would be breaking into poorly secured financial institutions and r/r4r posts would be littered Ai con-artists.

I'm just wondering, again, is this mostly bullshit?


Why do you think they're not, and why do you think Russia cares about Reddit?

It’s an example of potential use by bad actors.

They don’t need to run their own DCs, just pay for a proxy somewhere in the world that has better access to the infrastructure. We know North Korea has been doing that in the US since years now

The Chinese models are benchmaxxed to hell. They aren't as good in practice as all the hype suggests.

I appreciate this line of questioning. It's really interesting to see how many excuses people need to reach for to avoid the conclusion that the "secret unheard of power" is B.S...

Did you skip the last paragraph? Not a great time to be building data centers in Russia. Models are nothing without computers to run them

Russia can use fake accounts and VPNs to run their agents in data centers in neutral countries.

And which of these neutral countries have the capacity to serve them and the lack of awareness that hosting an offensive Russian agent swarm would bring hell back to their doorstep? Best they can do right now is rented botnets

Um... China?

No one is attacking China


Seems like it would be shut down by an injunction almost immediately.

Not for out of copyright work, right?

I guess I missed that part of your comment or mistook it for "out-of-print"; yes, I agree that would be fine for out-of-copyright works. Sorry!

project gutenberg is still up.

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