If the developer can't be bothered to not make it look vibecoded I assume there's a minimal amount of thought and effort put into it. And in that case I'm not going to bother using it.
Maybe this developer didn't bother I didn't even look frankly.
My point was that you can have very well designed and thoughted apps with LLMs. In fact, I'd argue you can go way further and deeper than any manual coded application paired with AI assistance.
But maybe this instance is not the case. But even if it turns out to be not the case, if the app does work and serves the utility you are after, then why not using it? People use many things in everyday life without thinking about what thought was put into it..in fact, most people don't think at all about what it took to build anything, and how it was built..
Do you really know or care if the shoes you wearing was handmade or built by a factory in china using robots? you probably don't know and don't care.
> My point was that you can have very well designed and thoughted apps with LLMs.
If that were the case here, then a user of the app probably would not come away with the impression that it was a "very much LLM-aided app."
You're talking about how LLMs can be used in such a way that they help production of an app but remain invisible to the end user. But the beginning of this thread was someone using the app and coming away with the impression that it was heavily LLM influenced, which suggests that it was not done thoughtfully and did not remain invisible to the user.
I get it, and frankly I don't know about this app.
But the parent comment positioned itself against all "LLM-aided apps", the author didn't say a slop or poorly coded. And even if it looks like LLM coded, we still can't tell about the level of thought that went into it. Developers had many poorly coded UIs and yet the apps functioned well and served it's purpose.
So the entire chain of reasoning is a form stereotype forming. Looking at this specific app, I can see that the author thought about the marketing/business and functionality, more than other alternatives, maybe because they had more mental bandwdith to do so.
To be fair, I personally only said that I'd like a label that indicates whether an app has "had thought put into it". That could involve e.g. another human reviewing the code and architecture and giving it a stamp.
I hand written each one of them, I think they are full of typos and grammatical errors as well since English is not my first language.
I assume you are saying that because I apologized. I apologize for sounding like AI, I assure you it was hand written and I put thoughts into those comments.
I don’t see how this comment is “against all LLM-aided apps.”
> But... I get a "buy merch" popup the moment I open the page, and there seems to be a pro option for what seems to be a very much LLM-aided app? ...IDK, rubs off a bit wrong IMO. Just my personal opinion.”
Again, if the user of the app comes away with the impression that the app “seems to be a very much LLM-aided” then the LLM usage has affected the end product.
I think people are judging mainly the UI of the app. This is closed code app so they don't know, but they are judging by patterns in the UI and/or wording of documentation. And I think it is mainly tech or artists or whoever else is impacted by the AI usage.
That is not say there are really mindlessly produced apps out there. But the comment made it sound that anything LLM-aided is negative.
But what does this has to do with LLM-assisted coding? I wouldn't trust this app even it was manually coded.
In fact, given the recent reports, in terms of security, one is better off consulting LLMs on the exposure surfaces. Something a solo developer can now do cheaply but in the past required a lot of specialized knowledge.
> But what does this has to do with LLM-assisted coding?
What does "LLM-assisted coding" have to do with the question I answered? Here's that question again:
> if the app does work and serves the utility you are after, then why not using it?
Note that this question does not contain any reference to "LLMs". Indeed, an LLM-generated product can contain adware, spyware, or trojan horses just like a human-written one.
For additional context, this app in question seems to actually contain adware and spyware, and has a closed source codebase, so might contain a trojan horse as well.
Those seem like pretty good reasons to not run this totally-vibe-coded software, so I'm sorry, but I don't understand your argument that LLMs make this okay or not okay or whatever.
My comment was about not equating every LLM assisted app as poorly thought of. Your comment is about this specific app, and I personally would not install this app regardless of how it was coded.
But again in terms of security since you brought it, I'd argue that having LLM assisted coded app might be secure than manually coded application given the recent advancements. Again, this is a generic statement, not specific to this app.
The original discussion was not about every LLM assisted app, it was specifically about vibe-coded apps, particularly ones with so little human input that experienced coders can tell they were vibe-coded.
Your later comments generalizing to "every LLM assisted app" seem like a bit of insecurity you might be feeling for using LLM assistance. No need to feel that way. LLM assistance is okay. We're discussing something different from mere LLM assistance.
That is the original comment: " for what seems to be a very much LLM-aided app? "
The author mentioned LLM-aided app, not even AI assisted; nor vibe coded hence my reaction. I don't have insecurity from using LLM nor from coding manually. But I noticed a trend in people thinking and biases and it threw me off hence the comment.
My original comment was heavily downvoted and furthermore some of my comments were accused of being written by AI meanwhile I'm writing it by hand. Again, people are taking tribes/camps, if you speaking of insecurities, it actually the opposite clearly, many programmers are worried of being displaced and automated. And I do understand the concern, I'm just stating the fact that one can have very deeply thoughted LLM-aided app.
You know I pulled these figures out of their table on the bus in to work. I selected the largest economies in the OECD (Germany, France, America, South Korean and Japan are the largest economies in the OECD). I added Taiwan and Singapore for context since my contention related to east Asia and only two countries is unbalanced. I should have added UK (-9) instead of Sweden (all the Brexit dooming made me forget that the UK is still a bigger economy and I actually buy some Swedish stuff). As for your list - it seems very arbitrary. Sweden is a good proxy for Finland and they share the same exact trend. Israel is the only other OECD country on your list. The rest are simply random non-OECD countries.
Since you and others have brought up immigration I felt the need to review this thesis. For the OECD plotting foreign born population against Pisa math changes gets a decent correlation (Spearman r = −0.384; p = 0.017). Obviously foreign born is an imperfect proxy for classroom demographics, but it's a start. Definitely a trend, not a huge one, but hard to ignore. I'm honestly surprised that it is not discussed much in a 400 page report with correlation plots between composite indices (a sign of a very extensive data analytics project). Total failure on the part of the researchers). Putting aside any racial claims, I would leave open the possibility that training a large percentage of kids in a language they don't really understand is not likely be be as effective as speaking a language that they do understand. Seems pretty obvious actually. In fact if you drop the English speaking countries from the OECD list (English is very commonly spoken across the globe), then the correlation coefficient goes up to −0.55; p = 0.001).
Yes, and if you have such a care-free attitude towards a vegan diet you should expect to become deficient in all sorts of necessary nutrients.
Everyone who treats plant-based diets with any degree of responsibility will stress the need to plan them carefully, considering the needs of the individual and their stage of life, and to accompany them with supplements to make up for the nutrients that not even well-planned diets cannot provide.
For example, "Top Tips" from the British Dietary Association:
* Carefully planned plant-based diets can support healthy living at every age and life stage
* Plant-based diets can help to manage weight and may reduce the risk of type 2 diabetes and other chronic diseases
* You can get all essential nutrients from plant foods but vegans need to ensure a reliable source of vitamin B12
* If excluding dairy, make sure you consume other calcium-rich foods
* Include a wide variety of plant-derived foods to ensure your diet is balanced and sustainable
If you opt for it, then yes of course, abstinence-only sex education is a sure way to stop ten pregnancy.
Similarly, if you opt to change your lifestyle and start living healthier, and follow through, it will work.
If someone tries to force you, of course it will fail (in both of these cases). There is no way to stop someone else from being fat. We can only change ourselves.
It's not even a case of internal/external motivation. Even internally motivated attempts often fail. You can always claim that they just didn't want it enough or lacked willpower, but it still reduces the effectiveness of the approach. You can claim any approach for solving a problem works if you reject all the cases where it doesn't.
Being fit and maintaining the normal weight is not the same thing as reaching a BMI of 50 kg/m² then losing it. I've seen fitness influencers take up that challenge only to find that "changing oneself" is significantly harder than it used to be when they were fit.
That they should be so lucky to have such a present CEO! Why ours sits on the board of multiple companies in unrelated industries, and manages some entirely unrelated business side of another conglomerate all by himself. Thankfully he's been promised several 10s to 100s of millions of dollars to make our company better now
I’ve known some devs who were recent immigrants and did not speak much English. It wasn’t FAANG and not West coast so I don’t think they were making $200k but they got by and often paired with other devs who spoke their language and much better English.
Overall they were nice people and their English improved over time for the duration I knew them. It was a bit of a struggle to communicate sometimes but I didn’t mind it. Any time I felt frustrated about it I just thought about how they must be feeling, and it didn’t seem so bad anymore.
Honestly, this question is really revealing, because it's the lower-paid SWE jobs that are probably not Bay Area or NYC, which are precisely the places where lower* English fluency is most likely to be tolerated or even the majority.
I was the only person on my 5-person team with 'Business English' at my first BA startup, so I got the job of writing all external-routing communications.
When I worked remote for a Midwest company years later, it was very clear that anything but perfect English was disqualifying in the eyes of a lot of (Midwest white male) management there.
I find it very that a big company ever gets this deep in layers of indirection, but at least they have the guts to restructure. The government rarely does.
It seems silly to “restructure” and then “return to growth” though.
Like, the restructuring is mainly an exercise of managing layers of pointers. Why don’t they ever move around the pointers and keep the people? Save the garbage cleaner process till the very end.
Presumably people who cleared these interview processes are amongst the best and could easily re-train to fit different roles.
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