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Why all the quotation marks in the article? It's not like they interviewed toddlers that said funny things.

It’s in quotation marks because it’s a quotation. The BBC have not independently verified that the Houthis have taken control of the island, they are reporting what a government source has said.

They need to start doing this when other "regimes" make wild claims.

They always have.

It's funny to see the evolution of language. Quotation marks indicated that something was a direct quote. Then people started to use them as a sarcasm indicator. Now we're to the point where people can't even recognize them as indicating a direct quote.


I think the parent was pointing out that Israel's or USA's claims are usually stated without quotes, such as:

Israel invades Lebanon due to risk of Hezbollah attacks

rather than:

Israel says "risk of Hezbollah attacks" reason for invasion


A few more examples:

“40 beheaded babies” and mass/systematic rape propaganda accepted with zero verification (journalism 101) and, once debunked, zero retractions were made

Hamas-run, but not Likud-run

Condemnation of atrocities by Israel and the US that comes from Israeli and Western voices is given significantly more weight than the same claims coming from Palestinian or Arab voices. After all, the native lacks the capacity to be objective.

Israeli gov statements are taken as undeniable fact, while Palestinian (Gaza or West Bank) gov spokespeople or even Palestinian people in general are barely even platformed

Over-representation of Zionists in editorial teams of every major newspaper and news channel across all Western countries, which (naturally) led to coordinated suppression of any Palestinian voice internally and externally (started to change only relatively recently).

And the list goes on.


There's a well researched report on this bias:

https://cfmm.org.uk/resource/bbc-on-gaza-israel-one-story-do...


Thanks, haven’t seen this before.

As far as I can find, every mention of beheaded babies in the BBC is explicitly a statement of other people's claims and not a statement of fact.

I was not talking specifically about the BBC.

On the BBC specifically, try reading through their articles, especially from early on, and tell me what the editorial slant is. Yes, most of the content is neatly wrapped in quotation marks, but what picture were they trying to paint?

On UK media in general: https://www.declassifieduk.org/beheaded-babies-how-uk-media-...

My point is that both UK and Western media immediately jumped on and recirculated the claim in the first few days without confirmation. This was just enough to sear the image of beheaded babies into the minds of viewers & readers in the West, helping to justify Israel’s campaign to starve out the “human animals” and raze Gaza (a least in the mind of the avg citizen).


I'm unconvinced that this is a pattern that is distinguished by the nation being reported on. Headlines vary. Both of your example headlines might appear at different times in the outlets I read.

I think this was just a stylistic choice and that this whole thread is a weird tangent.


This is a stunning amount of credulity after "looted vs found" and "https://x.com/i/status/1322999903753220099" -style memes.

I don't know what your comment means. Can you say more?

But generally, yes, I think cynicism has run amok among the very-online.


I don't think that's true and would be curious to see evidence otherwise.

I believe BBC and other outlets with journalistic standards use quotes when reporting what officials say and only drop the quotes when they have independent verification, like eyewitness reports from one of their own journalists.


Are there good examples of this from the BBC? Genuine question - no snark intended.

US insists Strait of Hormuz is open as it exchanges strikes with Iran - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cj9gkpp0dkeo

Iran says Strait of Hormuz is 'open' but tracking shows few ships moving - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwydexp39ddo


Those have the same implication even if it's written slightly differently. "US insists" makes it clear that "open" is a claim by the US, not an independent fact. The first one doesn't match the supposed pattern where one side's claims are stated as facts, despite the lack of quotation marks.

I think it's a fair example given how untruthful the US administration has been about whether the strait is "open" or not compared to the practical reality. Both would work with or without quotes, but the Iranian one is quoted. Still doesn't show systematic bias, but it's what I asked for.

I'm pretty sure the Iranian one is quoted because they used the word, whereas the US one is not quoted because the statements that the reporting was pulled from never used the actual word "open."

I see how it would read as bias if one interprets them as scare quotes, but it really does just mean "this is verbatim" when used here.


I am not saying this is necessarily incorrect but is it empirically actually true. Have people compared lots of different articles.

Yes, it's been true for a long time. See the book "Manufacturing Consent" for example, but there's been lots of research since. There are numerous ways that the western media biases news to build support for the objectives of those in power.

It would be nice to see research rather than polemics by far-leftists. Especially when that book is itself written by someone supportive of genocidal dictatorships.

Which genocidal dictatorships is Chomsky in favor of?

The Epstein stuff is extremely disappointing of course, but his analysis is still quite sober and valid.


I don't see anything stated as fact (without quote marks) here solely on the basis of Trump having said it, and I see use of quote marks for things he has said, eg. 'Trump says Iran war will end "immediately" after US midterm elections': https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/topics/cp7r8vgl2lgt

The BBC's main sin in relation to Trump is sane-washing, treating his bizarre outbursts as if they were reasonable things for a US president to say. Eg. were he to say "I have a solid gold prostate!" they'd have an Anthony Zurcher piece entitled "Is Trump's prostate really made of gold?" with a quote from a doctor saying "while it seems unlikely and would probably be uncomfortable, having a gold prostate would be unlikely to cause any noticeable side effects as the metal is inert" and a discussion of the benefits of replacing a cancer-prone organ with a noble metal.


There is no way to win that battle.

Not reporting on Trump is not an option because his words and actions have huge ramifications for the world.

I think in general the press has gotten much better at just straight up saying that Trump is lying or wrong, as opposed to previous policy of only reporting counter claims from other parties.


They do.

It has nothing to do with verification.

They are simply reporting what sources have said:

Houthis 'take control' of Perim Island - government source published at 09:00

Houthi rebels have "taken control" of Perim Island in the Bab al-Mandab Strait, according to a source. Earlier, we were reporting that the group had reached the key island.

The AFP news agency also says Houthis have "taken over" Perim Island, also referred to as Mayyun, according to eyewitnesses and a local government official.

"Boats carrying armed Houthi fighters reached Mayyun Island after government forces withdrew from it yesterday," the official tells AFP.


My point about verification is simply that if the BBC had independently verified it’s true then they wouldn’t use the quote in the headline. They’d just say taken control without quote marks, because it wouldn’t be a quote.

My point is that they always use quotes when quoting even if it is verified by them to be true.

Reporting discourse is different from reporting fact, and I do not know the BBC for reporting unverified discourse or facts.


This is completely standard journalistic practice when reporting a quote on something that is currently contentious or unproven. For example, consider the two hypothetical headlines:

Activists decry police murder of protester

Activists decry police "murder" of protester

The first implies that the police murdering the protestor is an established fact. The second makes it clear that it is the activists who used the term "murder" rather than it being a non-contentious fact.


Both versions are fancifully direct in our era a media+police stenography, try:

Mayor denounces "radical activists" rioting and damaging city property in response to an officer-involved incident that resulted in one fatal kinetic altercation with a "loud and provocatively dressed" man.


> officer-involved incident

Ah, the past exonerative tense. https://archive.is/wPVdy

Read McSweeney's guide to ambiguous grammar, where they lead you step by step from the quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog to the ultimate say-nothing sentence speed was involved in a jumping-related incident while a fox was brown, and the punchline is you can then translate "the St Louis County Police Department was involved in an officer-involved shooting after officers came under heavy gunfire" to "a police officer shot a black person" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Michael_Brown)

https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/an-interactive-guide-to-...

But no, that's the language issued by police departments covering their asses. Journalists are a little bit covering their asses in making clear what is a quote and what isn't, but they're still responsible for what they choose to quote, and to be clear on whether they have verified the claims they're quoting.

Ideally, unverified claims shouldn't even be in an article. But when there _has_ been some kind of stramash, they just don't know who did what, the need to rush out an article to get clicks means they'll just quote both sides and try to give them equal prominence until they can do more verification.


https://patch.com/california/northhollywood/my-daughter-died...

oh like this article that says a child was hit by a "LAPD bullet" as though wild bullets roam the streets of LA looking for children instead of being fired from a gun by a person who made a decision.


Do the BBC or other outlets use "officer-involved incident" without quotes?

It's generally police officials that use that terminology.


It doesn't help when snippets are post leaving out the other context clues where things like "according to" or "anonymous source stated" or similar attribute of the quote. Just putting words between quotation marks does not lead me to believe they were quotes if there is no attribution. Otherwise, it's a Trump level "people tell me" type of "quote".

In that case, that seems like a variation of the "past exonerative tense".

Do you consider every trial defendant to be exonerated?

Presumably to indicate that the parts in quotes are indeed quoted literally from the source that is mentioned in the same sentence?


When I moved from the US to the UK, the use of quotation marks in news headlines was something that confused me. In the US, these would be "scare quote", with the quotation marks basically standing in for the words "so-called". In the UK, that is NOT their meaning. The quotation marks mean "we are not ourselves in a position to verify this, but it is the words that a source has told us". Very different meaning -- and once I got used to it, I think the UK use of language in this case is more honest and useful.

tl;dr: two countries, divided by a common language.


This is like this in most of Europe: when in "quotes", it is not the journalist, but the person who said something. For example, Obama said "Yes we can". He did not say yes we can, he said "Yes we can".

It is not about the quotes being verified or unverified. It is about something said by somebody, that you are reporting.


This is precisely what the word quote means!

It’s not so much ‘we are not in a position to verify’ as the fact that the person who said the thing, and what they said, is itself newsworthy.

If you’re reporting that “Government sources say Houthis have ‘taken control’ of an island” then the fact that government sources used the words ‘taken control’ is itself interesting.

The headlines “Russia ‘will be defeated’ in Ukraine says Zelensky”, “Russia ‘will be defeated’ in Ukraine says Putin”, and “Russia ‘will be defeated’ in Ukraine says Taylor Swift” all tell of vastly different news events.


Is it really a different meaning? Isn't the implication that they tried, and failed, to independently verify the claim?

No, it's a statement of who is making the claim.

I understand that ostensibly it is a statement of who is making the claim. But doesn't the media organization have an expectation to research and validate such claims? And so if they didn't, then that must mean that they weren't able to?

I don't think reputable US news outlets use quotation marks in the way you say they do.

Does “so-called” not mean “words that someone has told us”?

Huh? That's how quotation marks are used here in the US too

It's a garbage habit that they've all fallen into. The quotes will fall away when future stories refer back to this story.

That single quoted phrase was set in the context of other words, and that context defined its meaning. We know this to an extent that almost no one could have imagined since LLMs have become a huge part of the world.

My favorite example of this is how no article in Britain during Corbyn's leadership of the labor party would ever quote an entire sentence that he had said. Thousands of articles, and the quotes were all fragmentary phrases and lone words framed in editorial.

edit: Brits and the BBC especially do this more than most, likely because of their bizarre libel laws (that were once even worse than they are now.)


[flagged]


No, this is actual journalism. When it's from a direct single source, it's a quote, not an agreed upon fact.

I would agree if they were actually quoting someone or if it was a more substantial quote. In this case, it appears to be an anonymous source.

From the text: "a government source says", "In a statement, the Houthis say", "The group also claims...", "They group's military spokesman claims...".

It's because they been taken to court for mindlessly parroting shit they hear, but instead of actually verifying the truth of the claim (ya know, the entire purpose of a journalist) they just put it in quotes as some kind of "buyer beware" disclaimer

Journalism is just as much reporting what different influential people say, whether the underlying statement is true or not.

> actually verifying the truth

That's the job of the reader, not the journalist. Unless you're living under oppression. So you have misunderstood the purpose of reporting.


The BBC only assumes government sources as truth when it's from the crown or Israeli / US governments

The Yemeni report is interesting.

- How is your missile so accurate?

- We're using a vibe coded app on an iPhone that does terrain matching and target finding.

The thing is that OK, Anthropic may block it, but nothing says they can't use an open model hosted in a friendly country that has access to GPUs. And yes, this will most likely happen pretty soon to be able to create whatever you want without the AI provider blocking you.


> - We're using a vibe coded app on an iPhone that does terrain matching and target finding.

And that part seems entirely reasonable. It looks like the Tomahawk cruise missile did it with an 84 lb package with a 16-bit computer with 64K of memory [1] [2] and sensors. That's similar computing performance to an original IBM PC, which weighed 30 lb. The only bit of hardware an iPhone doesn't seem to have for TERCOM is a radar altimeter, but it looks like those are available for civil aviation.

[1] https://www.forecastinternational.com/archive/disp_pdf.cfm?D... ("AGM-109/BGM-109 Tomahawk ... Litton 4516-C digital computer with 64K memory")

[2] https://www.forecastinternational.com/archive/disp_old_pdf.c... ("16-bit LC-4516C digital computer")


Radar altimeters are widely deployed for drones and available for less than $100, eg https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005012484730308.html

Ardupilot boards are $20 and support lots of different altimeters technologies: https://ardupilot.org/copter/docs/common-rangefinder-landing...


Or something newer, like this one: https://www.garmin.com/en-US/p/166298/#specs

> If you accelerate at 1g constantly for 1y you travel 0.5 light years

Can't we accelerate past 1G constantly? Or do we expend so much energy doing it that we can't realistically do it with today's technology?


We can't do it with any rocket-like propulsive technology. By the time you get anywhere close to c the front of your spacecraft is being abraded into nothing by interstellar gas, larger particles of dust will kill you, and colliding with anything bigger creates an explosion that can be seen for light years. You need to be flying a large asteroid to even think about surviving it - you still won't for long, but you will have time to think about it - and the energy requirements are wildly impractical.

Magic warp bubble tech is the bare minimum, and we're nowhere close to inventing that.


Sadly there is no realistic approach to get there (even assuming fantasy-levels of technology).

Chemical rockets are currently the only thing that allow sustaining such accelerations briefly for human-size payloads, but the low exhaust velocity and exponential reaction mass requirement make sustaining it for days/months/years completely impossible.

You'd have to supply the energy externally (i.e. some sort of beam propulsion), but getting any significant fraction of g out of such a system (with human-sized payloads) seems unlikely within the next centuries, especially as the distance increases.


> You'd have to supply the energy externally (i.e. some sort of beam propulsion), but getting any significant fraction of g out of such a system (with human-sized payloads) seems unlikely within the next centuries, especially as the distance increases.

Or some form of ram scope, plenty of H everywhere, but those also have the issue of you collecting things while going at relativistic speeds.


You need ablative ships cruising ahead of you..

We can easily accelerate past 1g... 1g is just chosen for human comfort, but running any rocket engine continuously for a year requires an impossible amount of fuel.

Not with current technology. That was kind of the physics “trick” in the book ‘Project Hail Mary’, where the astrophage provided enough energy and propulsion to be able to sustain 1G of acceleration.

The astrophage was pumped around the ship to act as shielding for cosmic rays too.

We need a massive rocket to escape the earths gravity (1g). That takes us minutes and a crap ton of fuel. The issue is to keep doing that with fuel and oxidiser constantly for 1, 2 or 10 or 25 years is a monumental amount of energy, which is a monumental amount of weight, which is a monumental amount of volume... Also you also need the exact same amount of fuel to stop again.... So yeah ... We don't got it yet

We can't necessarily survive that well when under acceleration greater than 9.81 metres per second per second for extended periods of time.

Gravity on Earth varies about .7%.

Increasing the acceleration a little bit more than that (eg to 1%) would make a difference.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity_of_Earth


> "Increasing the acceleration a little bit more than that (eg to 1%) would make a difference."

Wouldn't that be only a few months on a decades-long journey at 1.01G vs 1G??


I was thinking of journeys that are hundreds or thousands of years.

If the acceleration was too great but survivable, what happens? I can’t imagine my back, knees or ankles would like it.


> Can't we accelerate past 1G constantly?

It's hard to accelerate at or beyond 1G for very long with current technology. Roughly speaking, the rocket runs out of fuel soon. Packing more fuel makes the rocket heavier, meaning diminishing returns when using the fuel. The mass required grows exponentially. See "The tyranny of the rocket equation"


The "phone network" nowadays offer high quality sound. Things improved drastically with VoLTE and other technologies which allows much more bandwidth for calls than the old networks could support.

EVS is typically not horrendous, I just wouldn't describe it as the usual VoLTE quality yet. That's still most commonly AMR-WB at 16 kHz, though it'd depend largely on who you're dialing from what where I suppose. One person who dials local cell users on a 5G network will probably tend to get EVS, one who doesn't probably won't.

> I recommend ripping your car apart and putting sound insulation panels everywhere you can! Also replacing your sound system...

Ripping the car apart to install sound insulation might void your warranty.

I have a Bose sound system in my car with 11 or 13 speakers (they're everywhere), but the car is so poorly insulated that I have to turn up the volume quite a lot at highway speeds, or even after about ~ 35-40MPH.


> Ripping the car apart to install sound insulation might void your warranty.

On my Toyota it only involved basic removal of interior panels, I can't imagine that affecting warranty or resale


That fact that in the UK or China you are surveiled non-stop it does not mean Americans want the same to happen to them.

Don't forget Belgium, Netherlands, sweden, Germany, France and many others!

Google national ANPR [country]


Apples to oranges. Sure, there are ANPR systems in other countries, but they have to operate under very different regulations, and cannot collect information haphazardly like Flock.

Using your exact suggested query for Germany will quickly tell you that mass retention of ANPR data is illegal, and only matching against "targeted suspect databases" is acceptable. Even usages of the technology in private areas have to comply with data protection rules.


That's funny because ANPR systems are much looser in other countries including much longer retention. It helps that you don't have national newspapers printing negative articles around the technology every day!

There is a difference between ANPR and what Flock does.

Which is...

I like how you're so nuanced when I'm pretty sure you never heard the acronym ANPR before


You are right.

> The hidden cost, of course, is that the NSA learns everything there is to know about you and your customers.

I doubt the NSA is gobbling up all the CF traffic because maybe, maybe they will find something of interest.

Can the NSA make CF "mirror" your website traffic to them if you are of interest to them, most likely yes.

I am not that paranoid to think that my website of a few corporate pages is of interest to the NSA.


The NSA collects and archives all internet traffic it can access for future analysis. It's the purpose of the Utah Data center.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_Data_Center


There’s no way a single datacenter costing a couple of billion dollars can store “all Internet traffic the NSA can access”, unless the traffic the NSA can access is a microscopic fraction of the total Internet traffic.

Think about it. The Internet runs on tens of thousands of massive datacenters. Thousands are being built as we speak. Obviously a single datacenter cannot hold an appreciable fraction of that.

BTW, the total budget of the NSA is less than the R&D budget of a FAANG company, so if you find yourself believing that they might have alien-level technology far beyond Google and AWS, you’re watching too much TV.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairview_%28surveillance_progr...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A

Public information shows that the NSA has been active intercepting as much data as possible.

It doesn't require the budget of a FAANG to peek through a significant volume of internet data.


That’s not what the GP comment said though. They claimed that they are storing everything they can intercept, which is weapons grade horseshit.

People said/wrote in the past that what NSA and other intelligence agencies did was to gather data and store the meta data. The actually traffic got processed for the meta data, and small amount of the traffic got sorted out and also stored.

I would suspect that today they also process the traffic for llms and thus store a bit more of the traffic as weight and biases. All that can be done distributed and to different degrees based on how much access they got and under what operational conditions.


Regarding storage, a single data center using only slow but dense storage (magnetic tapes) can store far more data than a data center providing regular web services.

“They’re not as good at violating your civil liberties as you think they are” isn’t very comforting. They are still doing it at scale and i’m not too keen on opening the back door for them myself.

> The Internet runs on tens of thousands of massive datacenters.

"The Internet" would require 1000 times less servers if it wasn't running off Python scripts in Docker containers in VMs in a virtual overlay network. (I'm exaggerating these numbers only slightly.)


Sure. But a government agency has secretly rebuilt all the same infrastructure without Python, on a shoestring budget compared to what Big Tech is spending, yet it’s a lot more efficient than what they use, right?

Caveat: I have zero experience with USA government agencies. The spying tech from other countries I'm familiar with are beige box routers made by network engineering types with embedded firmware written in C inside.

I think spying on traffic is just a massively simpler task than generating content.


It doesn't need to store the payloads itself. It stores the metadata of connections and probably the fingerprints of the content passing through the Internet. "The headers of the whole Internet" could be physically stored in a single datacenter.

Not all traffic, but any.

I agree it doesn't matter for most smaller entities, but it's relevant for larger entities and as the US does not anymore intend to be allied with Europe, the Western world, or anybody really, there's now actual incentive to move away from such systemic risks.


They also certainly have many heuristics running. Your corporate website is interesting because it reveals who your suppliers and customers are, and all of your passwords. They don't have the manpower to scrape this manually so they scrape it automatically

Because it is made of a lot of open source components glued together in different weird ways. Sure, I would trust KVM over Hyper-V any day, but the management sucks for Proxmox.

If they build their new Datacenter Manager offering into what vCenter offered and abstract away all the ugliness (imagine creating a "distributed" switch on Proxmox with two clicks) I think they will make a killing.


I had a lot of positive experiences with VMware (ESXi + vCenter). Every time I had a new project, I tried to keep it as simple as possible and it worked wonderfully. SAN, Distributed Switches, Automatic VM migrations to balance CPU usage etc.

VSAN was a weird one until I understood the logic behind it, but the licensing costs kind of brought on-par to buying a SAN and be happy.

I haven't touched Microsoft Hyper-V.


> free markets for everyone

should read as "everyone the US likes", not everyone everyone.


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